Question about triggers

Mon 2013/03/11 11:29 JST
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Panda
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Question about triggers

Just wondering, whats the official ruling on triggers?

Mainly, how you apply them.

Recently, during a stand-up cup round, I was given a game loss for activating a trigger in the "wrong order". Because it's only one game per round, I basically was given a match loss.

Even though this is completely out of spirit of the game, I just want to confirm with you folks. Page 2 of here - http://cf-vanguard.com/en/wp/wp-content/uploads/Cardfight-Vanguard-Comprehensive-Rules.pdf Says that triggers can be activated at different times if it has two effects. Yet, the draw trigger has a comma instead of a period. Does this imply that you can only activate the draw first, and than the power? Or is this the same as the other three triggers. While it seems leaning to the draw, which if so is a major overlook on bushiroads part, I just wanted extra confirmation so I don't get another gameloss because I activated a trigger in the wrong order.

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  •  
    Bushiroad (Registered on 2008/11/29)

    Looks like the officials looking over the tournament you were in needs to brush up on the rules. XD

    Yes, the player may choose the order in which to resolve the trigger abilities.
    Some of the punctuation may not have been revised for certain documents, but that is the official resolution for the trigger abilities. ^_^v

    Mon 2013/03/11 11:29:17 JST (ID #13954)  Report
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      Panda (Registered on 2013/03/10)

      Just to clarify, you can put the power onto a unit before you draw your card, and vice versa, correct?

      A guy who said he was a nationals judge (And who judged last year at your regional events) was the one who "Rule sharked" me on this. He said I must draw before I apply the power. Because I added the power and than draw, this created some messed up game state, and that ordered a game loss. He said these are the rules he has been using when judging at his local card shop, along with the regionals he has judged in the past. He even told me he had to disqualify a guy last year at your regionals because of this ruling.

      Thanks for the reply!

      Mon 2013/03/11 14:32:28 JST (ID #13962)  Report
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        Xagor in England (Registered on 2011/05/03)
        PhD student http://tcgshiyo.wordpress.com/

        I think it's worth clarifying what 'Rule Sharking' is here, since people seem to have the wrong idea.
        What you describe here is not 'rule sharking' on the part of the judge, but merely them being wrong / misinformed about something. This is a problem, but of a different kind.

        'Rule Sharking' is when a player catches their opponent doing something wrong, such as using a card wrong, following game mechanics wrong, accidentally drawing extra cards etc, and then calls a judge and tries to get the opponent a heavy penalty. So for example a player might do something wrong that's easily repairable and doesn't really damage the flow of the game. The opponent might then push for something like a Game Loss, which is a completely disproportionate penalty. This is Rule Sharking.

        It sounds to me more like you've got issues of overhanded officials at our tournaments that are too keen to hand out heavy penalties for infractions that can easily be reversed without damaging the game too much.

        Tue 2013/03/12 02:24:25 JST (ID #13992)  Report
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          Panda (Registered on 2013/03/10)

          Actually, that's exactly what happened.

          As I said, I was playing the game with this guy, about to win, when I reveal a draw trigger. I gave the power and than drew. He called a judge, and told them that because I did the mechanics of a draw trigger in "reverse" (Apparently I should have drawn than gave the power) that this deserves a game loss, which basically is a match loss in the stand-up cup. The other judges probably agreed with him because he was a natonalist judge from Yuma and came down here to play.

          He tried using the knowledge of the technical game mechanics (Which apparently Bushiroad says are wrong) to get me a game loss, even though it was easily repairable on the basis that the deck was affected and that completely messes everything up.

          That's pretty rule sharky to me.

          Tue 2013/03/12 05:51:13 JST (ID #14003)  Report
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    Resdraon in new york, sucks but ok! (Registered on 2012/07/04)
    Mangaka, student, card seller http://www.youtube.com/user/resdraon?feature=mhee

    so u got messed up by judges also?? regionals a kid lied to the judges and got me my 2nd lose.
    draw triggers can be used in any order

    Mon 2013/03/11 11:31:56 JST (ID #13955)  Report
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      Panda (Registered on 2013/03/10)

      Yep, on the first round too, right before I was about to win. The second round I got stuck on grade 1, which basically means I didn't even get a chance to fight for my spot this year.

      Makes me quite the sad panda :<

      Mon 2013/03/11 14:35:20 JST (ID #13963)  Report
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    JohnnyBlaze in USA (Registered on 2012/07/19)

    Hence why there needs to be an official Judge program for this game. The way I see it and have been hearing that there are plenty of judges that rule shark in favor of their own local players in these tournaments. That is morally wrong and they shouldnt be judges acting that way.

    Mon 2013/03/11 23:05:06 JST (ID #13978)  Report
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    Xak in Singapore (Registered on 2011/02/17)
    WS, VS, Chaos TCG, Vanguard player http://chaos.nk-ds.org

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there are only officially sanctioned judges for Vanguard in Japan...

    Tue 2013/03/12 01:47:14 JST (ID #13985)  Report
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    CrazyCoyote in Ca, fresno (Registered on 2012/11/11)
    student

    i say that from now on judges have a PRINTED COPY OF RULES AT THEIR SIDE AT ALL TIMES. i dont mean one section i mean ALL THE RULES. the rules are found here, and i printed and pretty much memorized all of them.mmmmaybe not all, but like 99%

    http://cf-vanguard.com/en/wp/wp-content/uploads/Cardfight-Vanguard-Comprehensive-Rules.pdf

    Tue 2013/03/12 02:23:46 JST (ID #13991)  Report
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